My theories on "Bad Wolf," such as they are, in NDW

[capri0mni]

After rob_t_firefly gave me a clue where to look, I went back and found the "Bad Wolf" reference in Rose.

And once I knew what to pay attention to, I heard the Nestene Consciousness say, fairly clearly: "Bad Wolf" (or as clearly as possible, with a strong, squeaky-growl-ly alien accent ;-)). I actually heard the NC say it twice.

And what I find most fascinating is the Doctor's response. Here's the scene as I heard it, starting at 34:03:

[Auton takes 'anti-plastic'; NC says something]
DOCTOR: That was just insurance! I wasn't going to use it!
NC: (Says something alien)
DOCTOR: I'm not attacking you! I'm here to help! I'm not your enemy -- I swear, I'm not!
NC [slurred and squeaky]: Bad Wolf!
DOCTOR: What do you mean?! [TARDIS is revealed, Doctor looks back at it] oh no-no! Honestly, no!
NC: (Says something)
DOCTOR: Yes, that's my ship.
NC [more clearly]: Bad Wolf!
DOCTOR: That's not true! I should know -- I was there, I fought in the war! (etc. ...)
---

So -- it seems to me that the Doctor knows of "Bad Wolf," too, and that he knows others think it's the TARDIS, but he doesn't believe it, himself. Maybe someone's got some identity theft going on.

Personally, I am seriously hoping it's not the Master. He's my least favorite villian from Old Who -- all of the Doctor/Master stories felt rather claustrophobic to me, including the TVM (which I hope remains of ambiguous canonicity).

These thoughts were originally posted as a comment to a recent entry inmylildementor's journal. And yes. I am just a bit obsessive about going back and listening to the dialogue. I still can't quite make out what Rose is saying just before she "Swings into action," though. Can anyone help me out, there? It would be most appreciated...

Comments

Trials & travails with new Doctor Who

[popesnarky.livejournal.com]

Hail Eris!

I, ah, screwed up the DVD-R I used to record that ep, or the disc was no good, or something -- even worse, though I did manage to see that one, the second ep was a dead loss, can't view it at all, didn't record it on VCR, didn't watch it while it was on. Only caught a few minutes of "The Unquiet Dead", too. I hate my life...;-{P}

Snarky, since then recording every new DW ep on DVD-RW, and on two different VCRs

[gordon-r-d.livejournal.com]

RTD said on one of the Confidential documentaries that the Master will likely be back sometime, but not while he's in charge. :P

Someone somewhere, maybe on LJ can't honestly remember, pointed out that the "bad wolf" isn't necessarily an evil thing,

As for Rose's speech, the first DVD came out today, so I can bring up the subtitles. :)

"I've got no A-levels. No job. No future. But I'll tell you what I have got. Jericho Street Junior School Under-7s Gymnastics Team. I've got the bronze."

As for my thoughts on the Bad Wolf, although the idea is intriguing, I don't believe Doc9 is the Bad Wolf because he's not really the Doctor (I mean, it'd be a hell of a storyline and twist, but there's no way I'm going to believe Eccleston isn't a real Doctor) and I don't think it's Rose. I have a theory and Ash has a theory, but I'll wait until you've gotten batch two of episodes from me. :)

[gordon-r-d.livejournal.com]

Oops, lost a bit due to bad editing. :P

Someone somewhere, maybe on LJ can't honestly remember, pointed out that the "bad wolf" isn't necessarily an evil thing, but that the bad wolf is a social outcast of some sort. Can't recall where I read it now.

(Amusingly, typing "bad wolf" into Wikipedia brings up info on episode 12 of the new series. :P )

[narm00.livejournal.com]

Someone somewhere, maybe on LJ can't honestly remember, pointed out that the "bad wolf" isn't necessarily an evil thing, but that the bad wolf is a social outcast of some sort. Can't recall where I read it now.

Mm. It may not be /evil/, but it is apparently dangerous.

From RTD's Production Notes column for Doctor Who Magazine 356, where he discusses the Time War, and whether the new series' War is the same as the books' War (it isn't):

"Oh, and more than Time Lords and Daleks are at stake. Beware the Bad Wolf..."

[capriuni.livejournal.com]

"bad wolf" isn't necessarily an evil thing, but that the bad wolf is a social outcast of some sort.

*Nod.* That's the impression I've got. All through my childhood, my mother repeated "But consider the source" I felt insulted or wrong.

And so far, the two that I've seen use "bad wolf" in a negative way are the Nestene Consciousness and the Gelph -- two sources of dubious goodness themselves...

[narm00.livejournal.com]

The Gelth didn't mention the Bad Wolf - /Gwyneth/ did, and her power didn't originate from them, but enabled them to talk to her. Gwyneth was afraid of whatever she saw in Rose's mind... what reason she had for that fear, however, we don't know.

Something about the whole Bad Wolf thing makes me think of Jung's theory of synchronicity - of coincidences that aren't actually coincidences, that have a deeper meaning to them. Two of the Bad Wolf mentions are by entities who might know about the Bad Wolf - the Nestene and the Moxx of Balhoon - but Gwyneth, and the references later in the series, are another matter... (as well as the references in the novels). /If/ something is provoking these messages, whether the Wolf itself or something else, then it's something operating on another level - that is, not in physical reality.

And badwolf.org.uk is a BBC-registered website...

[capriuni.livejournal.com]

The Gelth didn't mention the Bad Wolf - /Gwyneth/ did, and her power didn't originate from them, but enabled them to talk to her.

You're right. The Gelth had been talking to her for years (ever since her parents died? I'll have to go back and double-check). They had convinced her that they were angels, and they might have been warning to her about "bad wolf," too.

[capriuni.livejournal.com]

"I've got no A-levels. No job. No future. But I'll tell you what I have got. Jericho Street Junior School Under-7s Gymnastics Team. I've got the bronze."

Thanks. I got it closest on fifth listening... I'll pass it on to Theta-G...

[rob-t-firefly.livejournal.com]

If the Doctor is aware of "bad wolf," though, he completely hides it, as he doesn't react at all to any of the other "bad wolf" sightings or mentionings he's around for, other than chiding the kid for the graffiti.

Regarding the Doctor's chat with the Nestene... thanks to the TARDIS's telepathic circuits, the TARDIS crew (and us) can understand alien speech. The Nestene's voice was mostly unintellegible, in keeping with the episode's following of Rose's POV. (I assume she didn't receive the Time Lord's gift of translation until she took more than one trip in the TARDIS.. otherwise everyone who ever traveled even once in the TARDIS [all the historical figures from "Time and the Rani," HG Wells, etc.] would suddenly find themselves linguistic geniuses for the rest of their lives, which would be a bit screwy and affect history, so I imagine the Doctor picks and chooses who gets the gift.) So when we hear "Bad Wolf" from the Nestene, it might be something else entirely in Nestenese.

Of course, Mickey the Idiot mentioned that the Nestene could talk.. maybe he understood the creature's speech as a function of whatever link the Nestene used to copy him?

But, in any case, the alien chatter happening to sound like "Bad Wolf" to the untrained ear yet meaning something else would fit in with the "background" nature of all the other infiltrations of the phrase so far..

I so cannot wait to finally find out what it all does mean. :-D

[capriuni.livejournal.com]

I so cannot wait to finally find out what it all does mean. :-D

Well, I can wait... I'm sure the suspense won't litterally kill me... but my mind will be considerably itchy until everything's revealed. ;-)

My one hope is that it does not turn out that the Doctor, himself, is the focus of this story arc. The show may bear his name, but it's never really been about him... ya know?