Being blind doesn't make you invisible (more Doctor Who speculation)

[capri0mni]

According to Einstein's general theory of relativity, our three-dimensional world is actually curved through the fourth dimension, which we percieve as time. According to the Doctor's granddaughter, Susan, "Space" is actually the fifth dimension (serial A, episode one). I suppose, when the TARDIS "dematerializes" from one point in fourth-dimensional space-time and "rematerializes" somewhere else, it's actually simply moving through the fifth dimension, where we can't perceive it.

The Doctor (and presumably all other Time Lords), however, can perceive those higher dimensions. As he says, himself, in the first episode of the New Who (this quote has appeared on several promotional clips broadcast by the Beeb, prior to the premiere, so I don't think it counts a spoiler):

"You know like we were saying -- about the earth revolving? It's like when you're a kid: The first time they tell you the world's turning, and you can't quite believe it, because everything looks like it's standing still. ... I can feel it: The turn of the Earth. The ground beneath our feet is spinning at a thousand miles an hour, and the entire planet is hurtling 'round the sun at sixty-seven thousand miles an hour, and I can feel it. We're falling through space, you and me ..."

When our brains evolved, they did not evolve the ability to perceive anything except the third dimension, because that's all we need to perceive in order to survive, so why complicate things (and even then, we often have the trouble with "information overload")? We're like a species of fish that has evolved in deep cave rivers, where there is no light, so the fish have no eyes. But that doesn't mean the fish is invisible. If you bring a flashlight into the cave, you'll be able to see it quite clearly, and you'd be able to see the vestigial spots where the fish's ancestors once did have eyes, even if the fish can't use them. So -- if the universe as a whole (in the Doctor Who fictiverse, at least) is five-dimensional, and we're a part of that universe, wouldn't it make sense that our bodies are also five-dimensional, even if we can't tell?

To use another example from Earth's biosphere: We humans can't tell the difference, at a glance, between many male and female butterflies. But to the butterflies themselves, the differences are glaringly obvious, because of bold ultraviolet patterns on their wings, which the butterflies can see and we can't (except through special cameras).

So -- here's the question I've been wondering about: To our eyes, Time Lords and Humans look identical (at least when clothed. There's been speculation in a couple of nostalgia_lj's recent posts about what may, or may not, be in the Doctor's pants). But do we look alike through Time Lord eyes? Maybe Time Lords have a couple of five-dimensional limbs, or sensory organs on the crown of their heads (or along their spines, or the souls of their feet) that are completely missing (or differerently shaped) in us...

Anyway, I don't recall, now, if I had an ultimate point to all of this. Just wanted to get a wierd thought out of my head, so I'd have room for even odder thoughts more productive things....

Comments

[indefatigable42.livejournal.com]

Heh. That's neat. ^^

Ants, by the way, apparently only think in two dimensions. If an ant walks two feet along a floor and then continues two feet up a wall, she thinks she's just walked four feet in a straight line. I think it was in Scientific American a couple of years back... I'll have to see if I can find the article online.

[capriuni.livejournal.com]

If an ant walks two feet along a floor and then continues two feet up a wall, she thinks she's just walked four feet in a straight line.

Good thing, too. To an ant, everywhere they go, anywhere they step: "It's a mighty long way down!" -- unless they just don't have "down" or "up" in their brains. Can you imagine leafcutter ants trying to bring in a harvest from the top of a tree, if one of them, somewhere in the line, suddenly gets vertigo?

This, of course, raises two questions: 1) how did human scientists figure out what the ants perceive? and 2) What is an ant's self body-image?

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

"Self-body image" is... perplexing. About the one thing I do know there is that there's only about three (?) species that can recognise that the thing in a mirror is a reflection of themselves. Which might suggest other animals don't have sufficient self-awareness to recognise their own movements being reflected back at them, and/or only a limited idea of what they look like. (Add in to that, I suppose, the way dogs seem to treat humans either as rivals or as members of the pack, regardless of the fact that we smell nothing like them and are pretty clearly capable of things their bodies can't do (like opening a tin of dog food).

[capriuni.livejournal.com]

Which might suggest other animals don't have sufficient self-awareness to recognise their own movements being reflected back at them, and/or only a limited idea of what they look like.

Or, perhaps, their self-perception (better word than "image," perhaps?) can't be translated very well onto a two-dimensional plane. If, for example, your primary sense perception is based around scent, a mirror image would be nearly meaningless.

If an alien scientist who perceived the world in five dimensions (time lord or another) were to show us a mirror that showed four-dimensional images, would our inability to recognise ourselves be proof that we had no concept of self-awareness?

And I know plenty of humans who interact with their dogs much like they do with human children... that doesn't really mean they think they're the same species...

I guess what I'm really wondering is: what an ant's ant-map is like, in their brains. When an ant meets a sister from her colony, coming the other way, and they tap each other with their antennae, how do their brains organize that information into a shape -- if there's a "shape" at all?

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

Or, perhaps, their self-perception (better word than "image," perhaps?) can't be translated very well onto a two-dimensional plane. If, for example, your primary sense perception is based around scent, a mirror image would be nearly meaningless.
If an alien scientist who perceived the world in five dimensions (time lord or another) were to show us a mirror that showed four-dimensional images, would our inability to recognise ourselves be proof that we had no concept of self-awareness?

Hmm, maybe. So far as I know it's just humans and chimps (visual) and dolphins (sonar). Presumably the dolphins can tell it's a flat surface and work from there.

And I know plenty of humans who interact with their dogs much like they do with human children... that doesn't really mean they think they're the same species...

I've heard it suggested that most animals (including us) approach other animals as members of their own species until that proves useless. And humans do to an extent act as dogs (social animals, yay!) so... there's that.

[capriuni.livejournal.com]

I've heard it suggested that most animals (including us) approach other animals as members of their own species until that proves useless.

Makes sense. After all, our own experience is the only basis of comparison for any new thing we may encounter.

And, just had a thought regarding ant self-awareness. Considering the way ant (And bee, and wasp) societies are organized, perhaps "Self" awareness happens at the level of the colony, rather than what we perceive as "individuals." A parallel could be made between between individual ants in a colony and individual neurons in our brains, especially since ants communicate primarily through chemical signals, just as neurons do. And colony-wide, ants are capabale of some pretty freakishly complex behavior...

Really, though. If we can't recognize alien intelligence when it's right here on Earth, how can we recognize alien intelligence from distant galaxies?

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

'And, just had a thought regarding ant self-awareness. Considering the way ant (And bee, and wasp) societies are organized, perhaps "Self" awareness happens at the level of the colony, rather than what we perceive as "individuals." A parallel could be made between between individual ants in a colony and individual neurons in our brains, especially since ants communicate primarily through chemical signals, just as neurons do. And colony-wide, ants are capabale of some pretty freakishly complex behavior...

Really, though. If we can't recognize alien intelligence when it's right here on Earth, how can we recognize alien intelligence from distant galaxies?'

See that right there? That's the most intelligent thing I've seen anybody say about alien intelligence, without resorting to jargon, in years. Especially the last bit. May I quote you? =:o}