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capri0mniOkay, so I've been posting a bunch under my "Signed Languages" filter, which most of you are not on, because it's a small subset of my circles... but twice, recently, under that filter, I claimed to have learned ASL from Dr. Larry Flesicher (who died in 2009). And then, today, I decided to Google the "ASL, S.U.N.Y. Stony Brook, 1991" to see what I could find about him.
...And it turns out, I learned ASL from Dr. Larry Forestal, who is still very much alive and kicking... Ooops? Um, in my defense, this was twenty years ago? and I don't think we called him by his last name anyway (since we were first year foreign language students, and clueless as all get out)? And I may have been reading the news of Dr. Flesicher's death online, without my glasses?
Anyway, Look what I found! ... I made it into The New York Times! (not by name... But I was one of the "more than 30 students [who] held a protest earlier [that] month," mentioned in the article). The full article is behind the cut. I'm posting this out-of-filter, because there are several teachers, former teachers, and soon-to-be-teachers in my circles, so the subject might appeal on those grounds.
Students at the State University of New York at Stony Brook do not have to speak to fulfill their undergraduate foreign language requirement.
Stony Brook currently accepts a one-year series of American Sign Language courses to satisfy its foreign language requirement, but some faculty members are questioning both the policy and the quality of the sign-language courses.
Thomas Kerth, chairman of the Germanic and Slavic languages department, provoked student protests this month when he recommended, on behalf of several foreign language department chairmen, that American Sign Language be removed as a course that fulfilled the undergraduate requirement.
In a memorandum earlier this month to the Foreign Language Proficiency Committee, a university advisory committee on student requirements, Professor Kerth wrote that American Sign Language did not "fulfill the purpose" of the foreign language requirement because it was not foreign. He also said the course was an "easy A," which had caused its enrollment to "grow out of all proportion" while enrollment had dropped sharply in other foreign language courses. 60% Receive A's, Critic Says.
Professor Kerth said more than 60 percent of American Sign Language students received an A. "This has led some of us to believe that the popularity of sign language has but little to do with the commitment to the hearing-impaired," he wrote, "and a great deal to do with the grading pattern."
In response to the memo, more than 30 students held a protest earlier this month in front of the administration building and gathered more than 1,000 student signatures urging the university to continue accepting American Sign Language for the foreign language requirement.
"The professor is afraid of losing his job," Dane Spirio, a junior English major from Old Bethpage, L.I., and organizer of the protest, said of Professor Kerth. "He's afraid fewer people will take his class because of sign language's popularity."
Prof. Roman de la Campa, chairman of the department of comparative literature, called for "controls" on the American Sign Language courses. He said he thought sign language should be allowed to fulfill the foreign language requirement, but not in its present form. Instructor's Response
"When you have hundreds of people taking a course, and over 50 percent get A's, there is a question," Professor de la Campa said. He added that sign language courses "should have full-time faculty who have a scholarly investment." The courses are currently taught by adjunct professors who are hired course by course.
Lou Deutsch, chairwoman of the Hispanic language department, said American Sign Language was not a foreign language and condemned the frequency of high grades in the class.
But Mark Aronoff, chairman of the linguistics department, said, "The internal structure of the words is similar to Latin, Sanskrit, Navajo or Eskimo."
Lawrence Forestal, a sign language instructor, said Mr. Kerth's information on the number of students who received A's was "exaggerated."
Mr. Forestal, who is deaf, urged the the University Senate's Curriculum Committee, which determines student requirements, to allow sign language students and deaf people to address the committee before a decision was made. "How can the committee set such policies without real knowledge of sign language?" he asked.
Charles Franco, chairman of the Foreign Language Proficiency Committee, said: "I can see both sides of the argument." He said the committee would have a recommendation for the University Senate by the beginning of the fall semester.
I knew the anti-ASL argument was bogus at the time... I don't know how many students actually did get A's. But we were given work in that class... And no, we didn't "speak," but we were required to sign in class.
But now that I've followed along with people working as college and university instructors, I really know their argument was bogus:
"Too many students get A's!"
(actually, you counted wrong)
"Well, it's American Language... That's not foreign!"
(But Navajo is?)
"Well, it's only taught by Adjunct Professors! Everyone knows they're not real scholars."
---
That last one is the kicker, ain't it? Especially since, I bet, every one of the tenured professors making that argument back then were Adjunct Professors, once upon a time...
...And it turns out, I learned ASL from Dr. Larry Forestal, who is still very much alive and kicking... Ooops? Um, in my defense, this was twenty years ago? and I don't think we called him by his last name anyway (since we were first year foreign language students, and clueless as all get out)? And I may have been reading the news of Dr. Flesicher's death online, without my glasses?
Anyway, Look what I found! ... I made it into The New York Times! (not by name... But I was one of the "more than 30 students [who] held a protest earlier [that] month," mentioned in the article). The full article is behind the cut. I'm posting this out-of-filter, because there are several teachers, former teachers, and soon-to-be-teachers in my circles, so the subject might appeal on those grounds.
Students at the State University of New York at Stony Brook do not have to speak to fulfill their undergraduate foreign language requirement.
Stony Brook currently accepts a one-year series of American Sign Language courses to satisfy its foreign language requirement, but some faculty members are questioning both the policy and the quality of the sign-language courses.
Thomas Kerth, chairman of the Germanic and Slavic languages department, provoked student protests this month when he recommended, on behalf of several foreign language department chairmen, that American Sign Language be removed as a course that fulfilled the undergraduate requirement.
In a memorandum earlier this month to the Foreign Language Proficiency Committee, a university advisory committee on student requirements, Professor Kerth wrote that American Sign Language did not "fulfill the purpose" of the foreign language requirement because it was not foreign. He also said the course was an "easy A," which had caused its enrollment to "grow out of all proportion" while enrollment had dropped sharply in other foreign language courses. 60% Receive A's, Critic Says.
Professor Kerth said more than 60 percent of American Sign Language students received an A. "This has led some of us to believe that the popularity of sign language has but little to do with the commitment to the hearing-impaired," he wrote, "and a great deal to do with the grading pattern."
In response to the memo, more than 30 students held a protest earlier this month in front of the administration building and gathered more than 1,000 student signatures urging the university to continue accepting American Sign Language for the foreign language requirement.
"The professor is afraid of losing his job," Dane Spirio, a junior English major from Old Bethpage, L.I., and organizer of the protest, said of Professor Kerth. "He's afraid fewer people will take his class because of sign language's popularity."
Prof. Roman de la Campa, chairman of the department of comparative literature, called for "controls" on the American Sign Language courses. He said he thought sign language should be allowed to fulfill the foreign language requirement, but not in its present form. Instructor's Response
"When you have hundreds of people taking a course, and over 50 percent get A's, there is a question," Professor de la Campa said. He added that sign language courses "should have full-time faculty who have a scholarly investment." The courses are currently taught by adjunct professors who are hired course by course.
Lou Deutsch, chairwoman of the Hispanic language department, said American Sign Language was not a foreign language and condemned the frequency of high grades in the class.
But Mark Aronoff, chairman of the linguistics department, said, "The internal structure of the words is similar to Latin, Sanskrit, Navajo or Eskimo."
Lawrence Forestal, a sign language instructor, said Mr. Kerth's information on the number of students who received A's was "exaggerated."
Mr. Forestal, who is deaf, urged the the University Senate's Curriculum Committee, which determines student requirements, to allow sign language students and deaf people to address the committee before a decision was made. "How can the committee set such policies without real knowledge of sign language?" he asked.
Charles Franco, chairman of the Foreign Language Proficiency Committee, said: "I can see both sides of the argument." He said the committee would have a recommendation for the University Senate by the beginning of the fall semester.
I knew the anti-ASL argument was bogus at the time... I don't know how many students actually did get A's. But we were given work in that class... And no, we didn't "speak," but we were required to sign in class.
But now that I've followed along with people working as college and university instructors, I really know their argument was bogus:
"Too many students get A's!"
(actually, you counted wrong)
"Well, it's American Language... That's not foreign!"
(But Navajo is?)
"Well, it's only taught by Adjunct Professors! Everyone knows they're not real scholars."
---
That last one is the kicker, ain't it? Especially since, I bet, every one of the tenured professors making that argument back then were Adjunct Professors, once upon a time...
no subject
Date: 2012-04-20 02:31 am (UTC)I learned most of my basics at Edgewood College. Run by the Sinsinawa Dominicans, they recognized that the "adjunct" status of the Deaf, female teachers was totally disconnected from their teaching skills.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-20 02:56 am (UTC)We showed up at the Administration X building, where the location and time of the meeting was first announced.
"Oh, sorry, the meeting's been moved. It's being held in Language Hall Y."
So we scurried over to Language Hall Y.
"They moved it to the library, conference room A"...
And so forth. I think we must have chased after them for about two hours. It was a bit like playing "We're Going on a
BearBoard Hunt!"I don't think we ever did get to present our petition, but it was gratifying to know that we scared the bejeebers out of them...